UNC System CFO Jennifer Haygood joined High Point University President Nido Qubein in the Power List interview, a partnership for discussions with influential leaders. The interview was edited for clarity.
Jennifer Haygood, who oversees $12 billion of annual UNC System spending, has deep N.C. roots. The Goldsboro native is a first-generation college graduate who earned a bachelor’s degree at Rice University in Houston, and later, a master’s of public affairs at Duke University. After working for Teach For America in New Orleans, she has had a strong career in public finance, including working for the N.C. General Assembly’s Fiscal Research Division. Since 2020, she has been the chief financial officer of the 17-campus, 250,000-student UNC System, following 12 years at the N.C. Community College System. She has been a director of the $53 billion State Employees’ Credit Union since 2019.
You started as a teacher and somehow ended up in public finance. What is it that
you did along the pathway that brought you to this point?
I’ve had a very unconventional path. It was actually in my classroom in New Orleans that I got interested in public policy. An example is when I arrived at my school, the state of Louisiana had recently enacted a number of curriculum changes, and I discovered that I was the only teacher who knew anything about it, because of my Teach for America orientation and training.
Also, during my time as a teacher, the state made a change intended to increase the instructional time. But what I experienced was that my school essentially modified how the day was designated, and they cut recess. I would argue we had probably poorer educational outcomes because the students needed that time to release some energy. Adults were implementing a policy in a way that worked best for them, rather than in the spirit of how politicians had intended.
After I graduated with my master’s in public policy, I originally got a job in juvenile justice and delinquency. I worked for the [state government] section that provided educational services to those who have been incarcerated, which was a very eye-opening experience. I later joined the research division of the General Assembly, which is a nonpartisan staff that advises legislators on budget matters. I ended up on the education team. It was in my work in the fiscal research division that I really began my path specifically related to public budgeting and public finance.
How does your role integrate with the different UNC schools?
So I work directly for President Peter Hans and work closely with the UNC Board of Governors, which has the role of governing the system. So part of what me and my team does is support that budget development process and identify what are the budget priorities that we then advocate for with the General Assembly.
The majority of the funds appropriated to our system actually comes to our Board of Governors, and therefore, we support them in the process of allocating their money to our various institutions. Another key role is policymaking, because there are a number of policies that govern how the funds are used. We also have a strong role in monitoring the financial health of our institutions. There are a number of actions, particularly when it comes to capital, investments and debt management, that must come to our board.
When I talk to chancellors of various UNC System universities, they say that they get less and less of the budget from the legislature. What is that percentage, or does each school have an allocation that varies?
Support from state funds varies pretty widely in our system, and that is because of the different missions of our institutions. Our small baccalaureate institutions tend to be much more heavily funded through the state funds. Our larger research institutions are funded on a smaller proportion because of the diversified revenue stream, particularly related to federal research and institutions that have medical centers. Systemwide, about 31% of our institutions’ revenue come from state appropriations.
What about capital expenditures? Is that a special allocation?
We work very closely with the institutions on capital investments, which are received through a variety of funds and sources. We’ve been very fortunate over the last four years to receive significant public investments in our capital facilities thanks to the generosity of the General Assembly through the state capital and infrastructure fund. Our state has made an intentional shift away from bond financing for capital improvements to a pay-as-you-you go cash approach. Over the last four years, we have received billions of dollars.
We are primarily focused on repairs, renovation and modernization of our existing footprints, and that will continue to be an emphasis. That is for the core academic student support buildings.
What’s the most complicated part of your job?
When you look at everything from our research-intensive institutions all the way to our small, niche institutions, it is challenging to try and make sure that you are trying to serve our institutions equitably. They’re so different.
How do you approach the efficiency and productivity issue that is a big issue in higher education these days?
We want to ensure that every dollar that is committed in the $12 billion is in fact needed as presented. This is an area that we’re constantly trying to evaluate and improve upon. The UNC system benefits from being a system where we have the opportunity to implement various shared services. We have the opportunity to more efficiently provide particularly back office services.
From a policy perspective, we have really begun to set clear expectations. Recently, our Board of Governors adopted a policy on faculty workloads, expecting that institutions have more robust policies locally that conform to that statewide policy. That’s a perfect example where one size doesn’t fit all. Given your research intensity, you are going to have naturally different loads across our institutions, but we wanted to set a consistent baseline expectation.
There’s a lot of focus on incentives on improving graduation rates, reducing debt, moving students through their programs on time. How do you get involved in that or is that left individually to each campus?
No, this is definitely part of our work. In the incentive structure implemented by our Board of Governors, for both President Hans and our chancellors, part of their compensation is explicitly determined based on campus performance. There are a variety of metrics, and we have been working to connect our funding model with these metrics.
I’ve been deeply involved in that work, to determine a portion of an institution’s state funding is based on how they are performing on a set of metrics as compared to their baseline and what we have set as a stretch.
How do you do that when each institution has its own differences?
We assess each institution as compared to their baseline, so we are judging their progress in the performance period. For each institution, we have set a customized goal that is based on their baseline and how much growth we would expect given benchmarks from national data. We’re looking at what type of progress we could expect from high-achieving institutions, which helps determine our goals.
Do you think there are misconceptions about government budgeting and higher education budgeting? And if so, what troubles you the most about the misconception.
I fully understand why this is so frustrating to the average lay person. But not all money is fungible. In a private setting for the most part, money is fungible, you can pretty much use it typically for any purpose that the CEO wants. But in the public sector, we have to follow what’s called fund accounting. We have to track all these different pots of money. Oftentimes, it can be very frustrating.
You may have to cut in one area, while something else is going on in a different area that is supported by a different revenue source that is dedicated to that activity.
When I was working at community colleges, there were certainly times where a school’s position was tight. We had to make some cutbacks that resulted in perhaps individuals being laid off, which obviously always is very challenging for the organizations.
But that organization may still have money to make capital investments.You can’t necessarily always use the funds for any purpose you want.
In spite of all those complexities, you’ve done some great things in the UNC System. We are the envy of many systems around the country. People admire North Carolina for its educational assets that are used to create a workforce. People want to come here. What accomplishments are you very proud of?
Many people may not be aware of the fact that we have kept undergraduate resident tuition flat for nine years. The national media obviously talks a lot about skyrocketing costs of college, and a lot of people don’t realize that the UNC System is bucking that trend.
At the same time, our investment from the state has grown 32% since 2020. We really feel like we’ve strengthened that basic compact around public support and public access to our institutions. I’m also very proud of the investment that has been made in our capital facilities and we are beginning to have that stable investment and repair and renovation budget so that we can be better stewards of our existing physical footprint.
I’m also proud that a couple years ago, we implemented a system requiring all of our institutions to have an all-funds budget. As I mentioned before, the state appropriation is about 31% of our total revenue, and so there is a much bigger picture that we need to ensure that we have our eye on. The implementation of the all-fund budget was a big step forward to ensuring that there was transparency about the comprehensive nature of those decisions.
If someone says to you, what makes for good government, what would you say?
Something that’s very important to me is the concept of stewardship. Particularly when you’re in the public sector, you are obviously spending other people’s money. It’s really important from my perspective that you approach your decision-making with that spirit of stewardship. How can I make the best value with these limited resources? I think that it’s really important that we make decisions in a transparent manner. And with that transparency comes accountability, a responsibility that my team and I take very seriously.
Would you recommend to future students at Duke or Rice that they go into this field that you’re in? Or do you say to them, heavens no, there are lots of other ways you can make a living?
I certainly would recommend that any young person consider public budgeting and public finance. I believe public budgeting is where policy meets reality. A lot of people may see a budget as a set of numbers, but I would argue that if you take a little time and learn what those numbers represent, you will really better understand the values and the strategy of an institution or a system like ours.
I have a front row seat to almost every important policy and social issue that our society is facing. I think it is extremely challenging and very interesting, but it is also where you really can have some influence. If you actually want to try making a difference and influence decisions, understanding the money, it’s a great way you can have some impact.
It is increasingly complex and there are fewer and fewer people, quite frankly, who understand how all of these revenue funds come together. I had the privilege last spring of being able to co-teach a class on public budgeting at Duke’s Sanford School. I hope that at least a few of my students were persuaded that this may be an area that they want to consider for a career. It’s a great opportunity to have substantive input and do work that really matters. ■